Lithium-ion batteries for advanced vehicles still have issues of safety and costs in terms of materials resources and abundances, synthesis, and recycling processes. Jean-Marie Tarascon, a professor at France's University of Picardie Jules Verne, discusses materials for better lithium-based storage systems.
This July talk is sponsored by Berkeley Lab's Environental Energy Technologies Division.
Transcript
00:00:01 good afternoon our speaker this afternoon Isie TER he's in the distinguished lecture series of the environmental energy technologies division he comes to us from the University ofardy in France where he has also been the director of the laboratory of
00:00:25 reactivity of chemical solids professor KH has actually spent a lot of time in the United States he did a postd at Cornell University and after getting his PhD in he worked at bells andc and one of the accomplishments that they had there was a plastic lithium iron battery with a polymer electrolyte and a lithium manganese oxide spinel
00:01:00 posi elect curently is on Saba Santa Barbara tells me that he still works actively in the laboratory today he's going to speak on materials for better liumbased storage systems for a energy [Applaudissements] society
00:01:32 so good afternoon everyone and I want to thank John and V for inviting me to give the lecture it is a great honor for me to be in ber because believe it or not it is my first time i send a lot of students four or five of my PhD came as a po but I finally came to see where they were so what I going to do today Isy to give you a FL of the type of work that
00:01:58 we are doing bas stage for a green energy Society so going to see to my presentations doing research and batteries some you need to work out the box think out of the box and I'm going to show you some advances that we have done at the material levels as well as at the Electr configuration so in order to set up the scene let me remind you first we are in
00:02:26 this business and what our motivation i am showing you the repartition of the energy sources that we are using today in order to illustrate that you have two type of energy you have the nonrenable energies that are coming from fossil fuel gas or carbonous materials which for 89% of what we have been using and you have that are the renewable
00:02:54 ones nowads we are using energy because the but unforun and we all know Ener to dev this rewable energy coming from the wind the sun and so but you need to that when you look at electricity the generation of electricity is only one issue because you want generating energy where people need you want to deler is and finally
00:03:30 you want to provide energy when it is needed and you want to use this kind of rable energies coming from the wind and sword you need to to talk about energy storage so our motivation of our work is the following one we try to develop sustainable technology for energy storage so as to manage the use of this rable energy and to shift smoothly from fil fuel to
00:03:57 energy coming from the wind and so on and also dev of electric transportation forviron this we want to Shi for theral car to electrical cars and just I will remind you that every time burning 1 L of Gasol you liberating 1.5 kog of CO2 which is about 750 l so now you have a problem and which you want to St energy
00:04:26 and totitute as electricity the best way to do this is to use what I will call the conversion of chemical energy into electricity why because chemical energy and electricity share the same carer that is electrons and when you doing so you use the device that we call batteries and that everyone us to complain since we are making batteries because there is not enough autonomy and
00:04:55 so need batteries have been around and for more as a of nice to TR the hisory of battery and see moreess how this came out like most of the time science this come out from very strange observation and the first one Wasis Galvani back to 1781 which took a fr leg and in this case he contact with two different metals and the musc was contractting he
00:05:25 make the rapid cl publish materials but prod Electric of course time sen it to much and later I think is Alander say this is complely wrong he to doeriment again and what youserve is but he associated thisure association of two different metals that the sameectrolyte whichsc
00:06:00 at that is Sting of separ by form and which was introducing electroly by doing so the firston battery as indicated and then after you have several developments and I lting few them two cent where you can seeell we know to
00:06:35 and forlic to compare the performance of batteries Energ and per l and per kog and you can see that of this techy the one is the most promising one and the one that I will to talk about today res F you can see39 was thening of F cells nowads people are telling you that the F cell are aning
00:07:10 technology some happen and also it's very interesting to look what happen you want to compare the Feld of information storage versus energy storage and again we have a he pressure because of course people working electronic talking the try to look at the SC has over the last years number Jun per or number megabits per
00:07:41 square now going to put our progress on the batteries and you going to see we have been very slow and of course we have been crized quite a long time and we are by newspaper you can read very sens and and battery research are always restricted by chemistry and I like this one research and the field of batteries move
00:08:08 at a glcier pa so don't put too much pressure on us anyway so why is it happen because finally if you look at electrochemical system it is relatively complicated even so we have five components which are two electrodes an electrolyte and two cent collector why is it complicated because number one mat and is not compent but Sever
00:08:36 components and to adj the AM of Materi binder electronicuct then you move to theield of electroly and again can be liquid it can be solid it can be g it can be poly and so on so againever option and fin of all the elemical system these are the interface and we have about four interf to master so what I to show you today is to make research advance in the
00:09:10 field of batteries you need to work as a team you need to work and m with different expertises and indeed as you can see here the design of better electremical system is going to be the result of full interaction material scienst electrochemist design people and so so again our progress are going to be lying down at crosssection
00:09:39 of various disciplin and you going to see my presentation I will move from P inorganic compounds move to organic chemistry and so on where the field I think is going so the way that I plan to give the presentation I will at the beginning give you a very brief REC of the maties in order to give you the technology knowledge to follow the rest of this
00:10:00 presentation I will talk about the challenge and then I will I will move to the beef of this presentation what I will call the development of sustainable and CER lium batteries where I will show you some new ways to synthes Electr materials and also the way to design newable organic electrod and finally I will conclude by giving you my personal view on the future of the battery and
00:10:27 the new chemistry that may around the corner so let's start with the lium batteries that is going to be the topic of thisation I design a schematic of this type of systems where you have two electrodeser and non elect the specificity of liium and batteries is that we are using lithium insertion electrod which means materials that can
00:10:53 absor and release lithium during the andchge the systeming to now and you can see here the formula is rela simple you have two important number Delta x which will be the number and two comp and m that is going to be the molecular and the R of the game you already understood it is to increase del x and to lower n this is moreess what people have been doing for the last 25
00:11:53 years and doing this Stu of course we try to classify materials and the par you Canion and so and when you establish list like that and when you play a g when you have so many rules of course the number of candidates are relatively limited anded after 25 of research the three Ty of
00:12:27 positivexx and work to come of with 1 but whatever you are doing you cannotceed one elect perd metals so this is very important but you that technology will not produce indefinitively more energy density we are limit and we know what is our limitation so the is how we and this is more back to 2 Ouram and
00:13:06 the to add size as an ex dimension to composition and structure to try to modify the physical and elemical properties of mat and by doing so we open some new rotes Inde we wereble to trigger new mechanism by what we call commtion this case we take does at all and youu
00:13:36 comp of nosit and thanks to this n now you can have reversible reaction and you can see by doing so we don't have any longer 0.6 elect per metals but we move to about two electrons so this moreess is a andently using the from to nanaterial we succeed andning comp into attrative materials
00:14:05 and I will come back on this materials which is phosate where this material was disregard for 25 years and become the mostis material nowads and our commun and with A13 an American company that is very successful has been developing battery so I look where theeld is today I will take transparenci from where you can havever we can see the nice change the
00:14:39 step du to the Materis and nowads we are at this stage where we can make system about per kogr and about volumity of5 now the IS how can we go fther and finally how we can make theccess as so far can be implemented and can be used for electric
00:15:11 transportation and so so going to see are numous Cheng to be solv as you can see first we need to increase Ener by of two u fact then weety Inde some by BL up and want to use vehicles we need to issue
00:15:45 andfortunately safety and cost are going oppos direction if you want to incree safety you going to increase the cost of the batter is no and finally is concept of sustainability and designing new batteries which means that in this case we need materials or to design materials or processes and which in this case you going to have the lowest or the smallest environmental
00:16:14 footprint and this is going to be very important because if you look the way the battery are made today you need to realise that cycle life is indicatedir first you need to extract materials you needfy them you need to elaborate the mat and when you do so this is to create of energy you can translate an am of CO2 per hour then as the amount of B that going to produce is going to increase
00:16:45 considerbly over the next year in the next few years and 10 milli recycling is going to be you want to recycle in this case again it is very and finally what is important also is Materis and we all know that we keep using our batteries the we now we are going to run out of so when you look at new research and
00:17:13 going tou your research you need to consider the Electr materials having the lowest possible cycleost and the minimum so again if we today our industry and our manuaur to B them you need because we are run out of we are run out of and so so we need to how we are to our from now so will be
00:17:47 situationation will beollowing one and this you make el from from natural products coming from biomass then you will do all thection everything at room temperature using green chemistry everything will be then the recycling going to liberate CO2 that is going to integrated and the biomass photosynthesis in this case you have zer CO2 foprint this is moreess the
00:18:22 long Taret that we have address in Ourou to show youever direction that we are puring nowads in order to reach stage I will three different points the first one I going to review the way to make inorganic materials via low temperature process e coefficient process and I'm going to show you some new advance and material
00:18:49 synthesis then I will move to the possibility of using organic electrodes r electrodes andowing you the capacity of making and fin I will on the ST of and the work are doingir batteries so in order to show you the inorganic part of this program I will take one of the most again SLE that is this
00:19:18 famousosphate again this is a mineral this has been one of the mainer from electochemistry has potential 3.5 but unfortun material is a very electronic and ionic conduct so the question is how to use this compound that has been for about 20 years we need to compensate for this electronic and ionic conuctivity you all know that this properties are
00:19:50 to the material so automatically in this case you cannot change it you just need to on the elect so we are going to see how to nicely the elect and because to do electochemistry you need of course the duality of I and elect at the same place and the way to do so is touce partic si this case the time for is going to
00:20:27 decrease as the square LW of the particle size which means if you reduce the particle size by a factor 10 you going to reduce the time of the to diffuse by factor 100 this will take care of ionic migration now if you need electrons what we are going to do in this case is take the particles and try to surround it by kind of coting ASIC by putting h carbon
00:20:54 coating and you can see that if you go to nanoparticles and do a carbon coating now have access to all the i with the particlesining of the particles so we are going to see in this case how we can design materials but what is very important to real even soosate is a mineral what I want to say that sytic mineral has to be made at the nanale and we have to look for the most
00:21:24 and energy processes to do this to show you that we haveving and to comp and the prog that we have made and the Inov when we start on this problem about years ago the first we come out with was high temperature process and which in this case we mix lithium hroposphate anditr with in this caseitr we use some of as acid order to
00:21:57 pr partic to and also hdrogenoxide as thenerature anden you start to solid and then you trigger the polyization of to get this kind of Morphy then you try to go to temperature and under you formphanic which is going to carb
00:22:32 some par carb CO and you can seecely when you look microscopy where you can see the layers or the O layers andf by this kind of carbon coting so first we have beening some good but again thiserature you need to to lerature so we design some new low temperature processes what we call processes and
00:23:04 which in this case we went to the thermodynamics in order to establish the solity diagrams so as to determine what are the nature of the chemical that you going to react and to know more specifically at which pH you should conduct your reaction and by doing so we able to come out with the different components me that WEA ionlfate with the phosphoric acid
00:23:28 but in this case since you want to be at pH to you are obliged to counter balance by a base as lium hydroxide but if you do so you will not prcipitateosate because all calculation room temperature and we out to precipitateate you are OIG to go above and the and the clue of all this process was to the dix which is eratureator solv which en us to to about
00:24:02 120 to0 and to precipitate so having defin this we then move to the kinetics and by adjusting the concentration of the different components by tuning also the reacting time we able to prepare particles as indicated very hispers powers having size ranging from N ud oftic si
00:24:36 Peran and so we look at particlesder first we the unell volume was quite larger for the particles make out of nanomet compar to the one or N and then we look spectroscopy as you can see when the particles are we have in this case only ion+ two there is appearance of ion+ 3 on the particles that are made out of 4 nanom so we try to understand the reason
00:25:09 for this and we have done somection data and what we found is that we when we move to nano size particle lower or equal to nanometer we can have some kind of C vacancies as well as mixing so this point the question was important and say what will be the effect of this kind of size difference on theic performances in order to do so we have perform some kind of
00:25:40 classical electrochemical measurements and which I will the potential asction of capacity you can see that when the particles are about 140 nanom we get very nice plateau which indicate of a twoas process while when we have nom particles we have solid solution as indicated by this S Type shape voltageosition cur and Inde in order to this point we can perform ex
00:26:09 measurements and this is what I showing you here where we are going using this type of device to monitor the change the structure as you going to charge andchge your batteries and you can see when I charging the batteries all thes are moving sol process so I youtic si we can from two
00:26:49 tole and we can you can canle without any carbon type of work that haveing L temperature but you look at this work there are still two difficulties the first one is the fact that we have some and the second one that to mention is a fact that we are this chemic reaction
00:27:18 using of the C lium hdxide which this is tof that going to be toet process process is how can we find another to bypass this large accessx that we come out with idea bas on the work has been few years ago byev where we are going to use now exra molecule that we are going to use this cas which under merature is going to
00:27:58 rolys retion and going to thease that iing that I need to have the right pH and by doing so we can now synesizosphate without using lium hydroxide and ex without wasting I will say precurs but we simply use this ure which is going to liberate two molecules ofon going to use to neutral the acidity phos and by doing so you can prepareosate and the product is ammonium
00:28:34 sulfate that is quite familiar and is used as a fertilizer and so so this more is a way we have been developing the synthesis and indeed we can see nicely what is going on here what I am showing you is a reaction i am for interaction where I mix all the components I put in a kind of autave then I temperature to 180 and I monitor of of time the pH as well as the
00:29:07 xrolution and what you can see function of time the pH is increasing which means this case I am decomposing iating my Amon molecule so the solution is becoming basic the same timeen you can see the formation of and and of course if you look at the property of the materials you can see youticleder which very niceemical
00:29:45 properties and the process that i'mowing you you can general to a lar am of molecules do this with with and so also you can use Var solv and some of them have advantage such as to also decompose at high temperature to generate basic species so we can apply this to the synthesis of large amount of materials and we have done this make this phosphate with either manganese
00:30:22 cobalt or nickel and we also have us techniques to prepareicate but now is theererature but I still need toerate under pressure conditions means I use the next step and the next is going to be how toass the conditions so you want to do you want to
00:30:54 from this of to container me you want to use you use water now I want to use a low pressurex Med and of course if you look the F of inorganic chemistry people have used Molon salt for quite a long time and they have been working with mon salt of sodium chloride potassium chloride and so that you need temperature about00 to have melting stage and then
00:31:20 after when you make compound you need to clean up theend it now to see something completely new that we come out with is the use of ionic liquids and you have certainly l about ionic liquids where people are working quite a l on for electroly and in our case ionic liquids for those don't know what they are are nothing else that M salt and which in this case they are
00:31:45 liquid at room temperature of and what we have done is try to develop some inorganic synthesis and of ionic liquids why because I liquid ties add they there is which in this case the use ofave is not mat and we have done and we canution aterature of about which is stability of iicquid so we direction and
00:32:26 toing and we as to we can water and CO2 and when you do this you can nicely you do this open container indicated and 24 hours you can syes the Phe and this you can also stage of nan this isely newo on theeld of chist where now we are going to use
00:33:00 iicqu to pr new comp and again when you see how you can make ionic liquid which are finally the right combination of ionic and CIC molecules we are on the field of organic chemistry and this organic chemistry is quite you can make of ionic liquids so me that you can this case tune the property the property of liquids for the type of syes that you want to do and
00:33:31 iowing you what we have been doing with this type of iicquid that we call em TF for eyyolium and TFS for sul in this case we can have this protonic this proton and this two position or having a group whatever we can Nice comp therefore you can see change C you can Thise prevent
00:34:02 of for use rather than TSI minus in this case you W be a to suceed in PR the same thing we are switching from this case this PUM versusum C you W obtain again this but what you can doquid you can also with the nature of indic also with the polarity of the and you can see here what is very
00:34:36 important that you have complely different orientation of intensity I should say of this twos which means in this case that you can use ionic liquids as structur directing agent to Ori the growth of your particles means that you want to grow particles in the one direction of you can do iting the type of iicquid to show you
00:35:03 Howen very process that we wereble to understand via some sophistic microscopy and what looking is moreess the growing of particle function of time at the beginning you can see the primary primary particles and then partic agre of M L
00:35:34 and and aftering what is happening due to the surface tension between the of and the size of the process stop and now the particles back to each other side to side P to long FIB where you can see the FIB the length of this need and this perf cryst indicated where the bas plane is a 10 plane explaining perfectly the preferential orientation that we observe
00:36:08 in our x data and again this process that I'm showing is not specific to Lithium Ion phosphate where I can see here all the electremical performance of the materials made using the process you can see we have a nice capacitor rention Nice power but is very now Materi nevererature greater 250 has with% of
00:36:37 carb and this process has been applied to now the synthesis of a class of materials this is again a compound that was previously made high temperature 7 now using ionicquid we can make materials and 48 hours at 270 de with a performance indicor again there some chemistv des ofid because this was to we
00:37:10 toorder to F so this complely new inorganic synesis that is coming out now wether to show you where now we want to ATER so how can the toled we going to now iserure and have Wey to look what has
00:37:48 been has been and we look at isation andum such as basusterior has been used for instance to preparealcite remember I show you before that we have been using urea as media species to generate this NH base so is we we use the same principle to sy means we use components in which we put urea and we use in this cas
00:38:23 bacterium the same as in order andoscop that we haveating biil surf bacteria which you can agre that are related to and then you look atction of time you see that agreticistic we to nanilament of they so small that even they were reacting too much with air and it was very difficult toserve by
00:39:08 microscopy so this telling you what we have been doing so in tomm this first part I convince you that we can do great innovation synesis and I show you have MOV from ceramic process to kind of naterials by moving to low temperature eitherothermalmal or even biominerization and what is very
00:39:35 important I should emphasiz some of these techniques some of them are totally newmynthesis where we have applied successfully technique to the synthesis of new of these materials indicated and also of some new Electr comp that you will certainly very soon so this moreess what we have been doing the case of mater syes efficien
00:40:00 processes now I to move to the second part of presentation and which to show you how we can move from inorganic Comps to organic Electr in order to Devel this greener and sustainable batteries and again people have been familiar with the Feld of organic chemistry will me is nothing new and moving toganic Comps and will be right since i
00:40:31 PRU and to that ofist and be respect we are talking about lithium instion into an organic frame to do so weve compl crazy from the Feld of inorganic to theeld ofganic Electr but we St by some materials and we as of look of comp that was quite
00:41:16 interting we call metal organic framewor to see what we have doing i sure people andud know some of comp have been very useful for CO absorption and so these are Tye kind of hrid materials and which you have this kind of inorganic ioxide which are linked by this benzine dicarboxylate molecules to form this
00:41:47 kind of one dimensional diamond shaped tunnels running Parel to the axis and which you can have some kind of type of molecules tiv you even so we found that this comp is able to UPT and to release some type of lithium Reversi asicated and this can be done as
00:42:37 relatively decent rate as indic and we have in this case reduction of ion plus 3 and ion plus two and but however you talk in TER of elemical performance making electron materials no way that you can make something out of this comp the capacity is relaely small how can what we can do toove this so we went to two differento the first one was
00:43:12 simple can we use linkers and functional linkers to have some active center for electrochemistry this of acid by this of C we we anyovement for the reason there is no elect transfer between the inorganic and the linkersganic linkeru so this was not going anywh this we the struct and now to structure with some
00:43:58 oftive organic molecules Thise we to enter into so all work was great we were able to synesiz a new compound solve new structure but when we look at the electrochemistry what happens is during the first discharge weed to reduce this KIC function but after oneclin not any longer we maintain channels and coming out of the structure
00:44:27 so means we have very so frustrated by allo we decide Toly move and to looking at simply the electrochemistry of the linker and what we are looking we look teralic acid and we decide to look at the lithium version of thealic acid so from organic chemistry a very simple acidtion Anding hdxide youlace the proton acidic proton and we molecule and what we have done is to our surprise we
00:45:01 found beautiful rsibility ONIC acid as indicated where you can see a potential8 vol and a nice rsibility and the same from transmonic acid and this result are relatively important because you can see that now we have organic molecules the same capacity that carbon materials but in addition you look at the potential is about8 vol and for by manufaur this is
00:45:28 veryimportant because means Thise we are not to useleor potential we use aluminium collector and moreimportantly as I'm going to show you now materials present also some safety advantages car Inde what is veryimportant safety when looking at batteries is Ener the Nega Electr and electrolyteun oferature the most way to
00:46:02 look at this is toform measurements in order to measure the heat release asction of temperature and what you looking is heat release when looking load carbon negative Electr lithium that I compare with our organic molecules and you can see the we have theat times less organic molecule that carb which means that organic molecules may present some advantages
00:46:34 inet for the next generation of batteries so this clearly indicate that we can do someemistry with organic molecules now of course this consider the negative size of the battery now we want to look is the Question can we make positive elect using organic molecules and this of course ande of comp which I this oxocarbon which certainly age of organic
00:47:09 and inorganic chemistry con the carbon and with oxygen and becausely one old chemistry the potassiumate was the firstganic comp ever made by back to 18 cent we look at this comp and we try to work onum so we in this caseic acid we do again I should simplify but acidobasic reaction in which we can replace theic proton by lithium then we
00:47:45 doation and we obtain this delumon and we look the perance of comp voltage and is and that to of the different carbon groups so this more is giving you Electr of M per so of course when youish like that people tell you yes but you workingganicch with
00:48:25 has ing type of newganic comp Verus our and you can see by the way is peopleili with theeld comp nicely with today Electr materials now of course you look volumetric of course you see more importantly the effect of energy density where in this case we compete nicely up to 1c withate but lithiumoxide is better
00:49:15 so the message here is that with organic molecules you select nicely organic molecules you can definitively compete with some inorganic Comps ADV that nowect of El why let me go back to synesis so this comp is madeumate is made fromos and now if you look where this
00:49:46 Compan is coming from you can see can be from this product that is acid that is wi distributed in plant and you can find of the or Thise we makeect mater for SuG carbohdr that are veryili veryans now we can make from biomass
00:50:24 now I to show you compcely andability and we look again the classical of Meur you measurement and what we find very interesting that we have l about so we have been stud l for quite a long time and fin we to what was on we haveation of
00:50:56 molecules andx plus theic molecu that is veryable and going to decompose CO2 end up with lithum 4 C6 which is tetraxyin in to confirm this we have synesiz this tetrumxle again I say adobasic retion using and mean and we comp and what is very interesting is by doing this we
00:51:33 comp that most stable our organic material today this is a comp that has been made at and you can see is cycabity and very nice capacity retention where in this case we have about 50 to 100 cycles what we have been making so now of course drab of this techny we to make veryed with very materials and this is
00:52:06 more curve we obtain in this case we have high temperature stability we have a goodc performances but of course you make cell energy density is relatively small due to the fact that you have small voltage outp the ISS the Cheng for you and for to to Inde i don't know youay attention but I use
00:52:38 comp but unfortunately as you can see I canot do thistion because I dotion this case the same thing I usexide i Ox haveos of the mat now oureng is to find thisas some it and we arec next batteries will be means using Electr coming from the biomass
00:53:18 and so isingainabil and because again you talk about Electric application this is more energy deliver by of gas this is where we are mat so we still have a large g L way to go and a factor of so there are some potential technology and where we need toevis some of the ear
00:53:52 Lith or met systems and we have type of research going on in this field met where systems and again this is all technology that is resurfacing why because we are make progress at the nanomaterial scale and now using nanomaterials we are a to make reversible lithom electrod of this moreess what
00:54:20 we that was given to me by Peter since we are workingollaboration on this project you can see that we systemibil of course iycl because after 10 cycles ribility is not any longer so again here you have potential material you can 1000 per which is fact greater
00:54:51 can to very careful and may M excit nowads but again I you working on systems there is also that need to be number one caseos protection against CO2 and H2 and system finally combine within the same device the two failur that we have 25 years the cell we haveing with oxy elect for quite
00:55:24 long time and we complely master elect negative elect we have been working with interf lium interface lium el interface and we are still wondering how to solve issues so I think is potential systems but this should be over as I think it is by now so in order to conclude I hope that I you that chemistry we
00:55:54 made eiciency process to newases and I we out new processes that are going to be important for all type of research field iowing you also that the field of organic chemistry andect is also very promising one since we wereble to find new very attractive molecules and to
00:56:23 con res ucture 25 years we mat becauseicuct 25 from now are the success Materis that ever and Me are more coming now the ofganic chemistrygic been around concept I think we come out new concept and I be surpris from now will back one of the more mat so
00:57:08 definitively the chemistry has been so and I can you there is more that will come out and you will see the next months but to conclude I canot resist to give to give me to give you mying of theuture Theure inter B dev oranicganicum suum and
00:57:54 is chemistry you need to issue of the resource of lithium and I think time to look at sium chemistry s comp do exist unfortunately we have been working not strong enough on Materi I know I know we have been working some C materials but no one so farast my knowledge look at the negative size to find some materials and I can assure you that there is some very interesting candidat that can be
00:58:22 used for but unfortunately I may have you we are still far from the Mor and sorry for this we are not good enough but my peop are better than me and I want to thank [Applaudissements] them thank you very much for a very stimulating talk I trust that everybody heard him say that should be particles
00:59:17 and now the question and the particles that can drive SLE pH process but to answer your question when you are such nan size you don't have the two phes you told us very nicely about what you think about the electrodes of the future any predictions about the electrolyte
01:00:02 qu and I think but I never so far any extings posi ne now there are some of research on where people to ich new Tye to the market
01:00:40 but I see even research on andectro by now to B research i found it interesting that you had for 2015 the uh conversion cathodes i I imagine that you're thinking of the fluoride compounds um do you have any idea how we going overcome the problem
01:01:20 of the hystesis of the of the voltage when we go on dischge and for by two things say first you know do we need to solvelaration problem you look at the air system that I mention here you look at we have one vol polarization right now you look at the FL system we have 7.8 and again I you you have some
01:01:53 application for which typ of now foration we cannot manage to have a good cycle life now again how we are going to solve theation issue on materials i don't have answer let than profor [Applaudissements] again
